Seed Morphology in the Vitaceae Based on Geometric Models

Round 1

Reviewer 1 Report

Dear Authors,

The subject of the study is interesting and topical, with high scientific and practical importance.

The introduction is presented correctly, in accordance with the subject. Numerous scientific articles, in concordance to the topic of the study, were consulted.

Methodology of the study was clearly presented, and appropriate to the proposed objectives.

The obtained results are important and have been analyzed and interpreted correctly, in accordance with the current methodology.

The discussions are appropriate, in the context of the results, and was conducted compared to other studies in the field.

The scientific literature, to which the reporting was made, is recent and representative in the field.

Some minor corrections have been suggested in the article.

According to Instructions for Authors, Agronomy Journal, at bibliographic sources, the volume of journal is written in Font style: Italic. It is recommended to check and correct, where necessary, in the References chapter.

"References should be described as follows, depending on the type of work:

  Journal Articles:
1. Author 1, A.B.; Author 2, C.D. Title of the article. Abbreviated Journal Name Year, Volume, page range" (From Instructions for Authors, Agronomy Journal)

Several corrections have been suggested in the References chapter

Article DOI name was noted in some bibliographic sources:

Page 14, Row 423; Page 14, Row 426; Page 14, Row 433; Page 14, Row 436; Page 14, Row 438; Page 14, Row 444; Page 15, Row 452.

It is recommended to proceed according to Instructions for Authors, Agronomy Journal.

Comments for author File: Comments.pdf

Author Response

Dear reviewer,

Thank you very much for your commentaries that have contributed to improve the article.

All the corrections indicated in the PDF have been made in the new version. The corrected text is now uploaded in the web page of the journal.

Reviewer 2 Report

Martín-Gómez and colleagues make the case that geometric models will be useful tools for objective classification of Vitaceae seeds. They build on their previous work, including references 22 to 30, to show that seven pear-shape-like models work better than simpler models (ellipse, ovoid, or cardioid). Overall I found their presentation clear.

From my perspective the major limitation of the current manuscript is that the underlying image data do not seem to have been deposited in a public repository such as Zenodo (or shared via a supplemental dataset). This apparent gap seems incompatible with the journal's policy on Data Availability and limits the usefulness of this study for future workers.

My second major suggestion is a matter of aesthetics/convenience: I think several figures would benefit from more direct labels. In particularly Figures 5 and 6, which have 5 and 6 rows, respectively. (Do the authors use the word ‘files’ rather than just ‘rows’ for a particular reason?) One can cross-reference the figure legend to figure out which species/subspecies and cultivar is which, but why not put the names directly in the figure, for example on the left side of the figure, in vertical text? Similarly, it would be convenient to number the models used (M3, M1, M3, M3, M7 in Figure 5. Labeling the models for the first three rows [M5, M6, M7] might suffice for Figure 6). A bit more text in the body of Figures 1, 2, 4 (rather than the caption of each) could also make them easier to grasp with a quick glance.

Three minor notes follow:

3. The sentence at the start of section 3.1.2 can probably be shortened, given that the one-letter abbreviations are defined in the first sentence of section 3.1.2 as well as the captions for Tables 1 and 2.

4. line 145: I don't think you intended to capitalize the word ‘Index’

5. Consider adding a tilde (~) in your LaTeX source to prevent line breaks in species abbreviations, for example P.~tricuspidata (line 292).

Author Response

Dear reviewer,

Thank you very much for your commentaries that have contributed to improve the article.

The images have been uploaded to the web in a database in Zenodo and a web address is provided now in the text (Materials and methods row 139: https://zenodo.org/record/3786726#.XrVL0agzaM8).

In the legend of figures 5 and 6 “file” has been changed to “row”.  The figures have been modified to include more information with labels containing the names of the species as well as the models used. New labels have been also added to Figures 1, 2 and 4.

The sentence at the start of section 3.1.2 has been shortened.

The word ‘Index’ is now written “index”.

Reviewer 3 Report

The article “Seed morphology in the Vitaceae based on geometric models” is well written, well structured, but lacks focus on the goal. From the point of view of image analysis, it is not very novel to obtain certain morphological parameters of an object or approximate it to a mathematical model. Focusing the article and the discussion of the results only in the mathematical aspect does not provide enough novelty since the techniques used to obtain the morphological characteristics are simple and well known. On the contrary, if the application of this technology to the determination of grape seeds represents an important scientific advance for this sector, this should be highlighted.

In the current wording, it is not clear what it is for to compare seeds of specific varieties or to approximate them to certain mathematical models, especially in species or varieties that contain seeds of quite different forms. On a practical level, what is the use of analyzing seeds with image analysis? Is it possible to use it in Ampelograhphy? How? Is it really possible to identify varieties using this technique? It may be, but it is not clearly described how in the article.

Some particular comments are:
Lines 131-135: Indicate how the photographs were acquired (inside an inspection hood? Was a tripod used?), The type of lighting (important to avoid shadows that could alter the perception of the shape), and the resolution of the images (pixel / mm).

Lines 143: How is the length of the major axis calculated? Is it the largest axis of all those that cross the center? Is it the vertical axis? The same with the minor axis. Is it horizontal? Should it cross the center?

Line 151: Do the models have a fixed size or do they fit the size of each seed?

Line 194: Add reference

Tables: Include the standard deviation in the tables.

The results are described and discussed in terms of the particular shape of the different types of seeds, that is, whether one seed is more rounded or elongated than the other, or better fits one model than the other. However, I am not sure about the usefulness or how this knowledge should be applied. Only by looking at the seeds is it possible to verify that the seeds of one variety are more elongated or larger than those of another variety, or have different types of shapes. Image analysis provides a method to quantify these differences. In practice, what is this quantification for? What are the advantages? Does it objectively automate any process currently performed visually? This is not clear to me. Beyond the discussion on the particular morphological traits of seeds, it is necessary to discuss how this technique can help growers, producers or breeders

And finally, is there a particular morphological characteristic that in general is more determining than another to discriminate cultivars? Any that is not useful in any case?

Author Response

Dear Reviewer,

Thank you very much for your commentaries that have contributed to improve the article.

The relevance and originality of the method proposed and the applications in Ampelography are important questions that have been now explained in more detail and discussed in relation to the information contained in diverse morphometric magnitudes.

Two new paragraphs and a new sentence have been written at the end of the discussion section discussing the informational content of particular magnitudes in morphology, the interest of the comparison with geometric figures and J index, and  including the mention to the Descriptor List for Grape Varieties and Vitis species and the application of our new method in Ampelography.

The photographic method has been described more in detail (lines 136-138) and length and width are now better defined (lines 148-152). As indicated now, the models were adjusted to fit the size of the seed images (line 153).

The standard deviation values have been included in the tables.